LEO editor

Interviewee: Frank Land DOB: 24.10.1928

Interviewer: Thomas Lean, British Library

Date of Interview: 2010 

Reference: C1379/17

Role in LEO: Programmer, Systems Analyst, Marketing, Consultant

Joined LEO: 1953

Abstract: This is a full oral history of the life of Frank Land as part of the British Libraries Oral History series on the life of selected British Computer scientists.

Repository: British Library, National Life Stories, an Oral History of British Science

Type of recorder: Marantz PMD661 on secure digital 

Recording format: WAV 24 bit 48 kHz 

Total no. of tracks 18 Stereo 

Total Duration: 15 hours:06 minutes:31 seconds

To view the transcript of this interview, click on the following link :

External Link : Click Here >>>

Please Note: This item is not in the LEO Society collection and is included here for signposting purposes only.

Date : 2010

Interviewee:  Brian Mills                                                                   DOB: 1933

Interviewer:  David Phillips

Date of Interview:

Editor: Frank Land, September 2018

Joined LEO:  July 8^th 1957

Abstract After completing Grammar School from a primarily languages stream, Brian completed his National Service of two years in the Royal Corps of Signals with the rank of 2^nd lieutenant. A degree in Economics from Bristol University followed, completed in 1956. A number of jobs, followed, some in marketing, one teaching Hungarians English for the Coal Board, but none of them wholly satisfactory.  Tempted by advert to try for a job with LEO and following interviews by Alan Jacobs and Doug Comish accepted a job offer a trainee programmer joined LEO in July 1957. His programming career started with a number of payroll systems under the tutored by LEO Fantl. Later he joined Leo Fantl in South Africa as systems manager on the LEO III in November 1960.  Returned to England after two years to join the consultants’ marketing LEO IIIs, and included Freeman’s Mail Order amongst his successes. Shortly after the return from South Africa LEO became EELM, a move Brian did not enjoy, deciding to join consultants Coopers and Lybrand.  This was the beginning of a long and successful career outside LEO embracing a number of companies, culminating with head of management services for British Oxygen.  After leaving British Oxygen Brian set up his own venture capital business

Repository: http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/56450/Brian-Mills-Interview-27-February-2018-56450/

Interviewee: John Durham                                                    DOB: 31st August 1939

Interviewer: David Phillips

Date of Interview: 22.02.2019

Editors: Michael and Helen Jackson

Joined LEO: 1963

Role in LEO: Programmer then sales and marketing

Left LEO: 

Abstract: After a degree in Industrial Economics at Nottingham University University joined LEO, having been impressed by the drive of the team from LEO interviewing him as part of the milk-round recruiting new graduates. By the time he joined  as a  as a programmer LEO had merged with English Electric. Worked as part of the team programming the Premium Bond application for the Post Office, but finding himself a not very good programmer acted as informal PA to David Caminer and moved successfully into Sales & Marketing covering Eastern European countries. Later joined Software Sciences as European Marketing Manager. Then formed his own company. The oral history includes fascinating anecdotes of his career with LEO and its successor companies.

Repository: http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/62993/John-Durham-Interview/

Copyright: Leo Computers Society.

Restrictions: None known

Interviewee:  John Gardner , FBCS  CITP                                                     D.O.B: 1937

Interviewer:  Graham Briscoe

Date of Interview:  Unusually, because of the Covid-19 lockdown, the oral history consists of answers to questions sent by the interviewer in March 2020.

Editor:  Frank Land

Abstract: Trained as an apprentice engineer and spent 7 years working with EMI.  Saw advert from LEO for engineer but wanted to leave engineering and applied to join LEO as a bureau programmer at Hartree House.  Joined LEO in 1962 just as LEO ii/5 wasw being pkased out for LEO III/1.  Worked, using first Intercode, then CLEO on a number of bureau applications including Heinz production control, and on the transfer of the Heinz bureau jobs from LEO II to their own LEO III.  Progressed rapidly becoming responsible for payroll and share registration applications. With the long-term future of LEO dubious enticed to Honeywell (UK) by a job offer that could not be refused, to work on their H200 operating system.  After 7 months I moved on to be a consultant for Hoskyns System Management which was being set up as a subsidiary to Hoskyns Consultancy and where the LEO experience was much more relevant.  Worked for them for seven years, but then found that the nomadic life that was required of consultants to advance was not compatible with having a young family so joined London Transport IT where and  worked for them for 20 years until retirement.  

Restrictions: Non known

Repository:http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/62259/John-Gardner-Interview/

Interviewee: Barry Fox                                                     DOB 1935

Interviewer: John Daines

Date of Interview: 19th July 2017

Editors: David Phillips (P1) and Frank Land (P2)

Joined LEO installation: 1958

Role at LEO: Programmer

Left LEO:       1966

Abstract: Graduated from Birmingham University with a Maths degree before National Service in where he learned programming on an Elliott 402 machine.  Enjoying programming he applied for a programming job with LEO.  His prior  programming experience allowed him to pass the LEO aptitude test with ease and after surviving an interview with David Caminer was immediately taken on as a programmer. His programming career started with working on LEO II applications including the Glynn Mills Officers payroll under John Lewis and then progressed toto systems software working at Minerva Road.  After working on the Intercode translator took a key role in the design and programming of the CLEO compiler for LEO III. After the formation of EELM worked on System 4. Moved to Kidsgrove, keeping up his interest in the design of computer languages and as as a result of his expertise was assigned as an EELM representative under John Pinkerton  on ECMA. Continued working in this field until in the mid 80s interest in language and compiler design faded and as a result took early retirement at age 55.  Whilst at LEO married fellow programmer Margaret James, started family life and had 3 children.  In retirement he joined Congleton Sustainability Group and runs a Green Living course for Congleton U3A, and has acted on his life-long interest in cycling as secretary of the local cycling club.

Repository:http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/64032/Barry-Fox-Interview-19-July-2017-64032/

Copyright: Leo Computers Society.

Restrictions: None known                

Interviewee: Helen Jackson (Nee Clark)“                              DOB: June 1936

Status of Interview: The Interview is part of LCS Oral History Project but was not a recorded interview, the transcript compiled by interviewer Helen Jackson’s husband Michael.           

Interviewer: Michael Jackson  

Date of Interview: March 2021

Editor: Michael Jackson

Joined LEO: September 1957

Role in LEO:  Application Programmer

Abstract:  Born in Wigan.  After A levels in 1954 went to Manchester University, and graduated in Maths in 1957. Went for job interviews to English Electric, Vickers Aircraft and LEO.    I liked LEO best, particularly the job Appreciation Course, which in those days was a one day elementary programming course and tests on it, with the interview coming after the test results were known, Placed in programming section managed by Jim Smith, which had about 15 programmers working mainly in technical and insurance applications  followed in 1961 by being given responsibility for all service bureau application  After writing a major programme for husband Mike took part time job as bookkeeper and as such became early user of PC, later concentrated on voluntary work.

Repository: http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/64033/Helen-Clark-(Helen-Jackson)-Interview/

Copyright: LEO Computers Society

Restrictions: none known

Interviewee: John Page                                                                    DOB: 1944

Interviewer: Dag Spicer, Computer History Museum, CA.

Date of Interview: April 11th 2017

Joined LEO: 1958?

Role in LEO: Commissioning Engineer

Abstract: Scholarship boy at St Clements Danes, public School.  Interested in radio and electronics as a hobby.  Chance encounter with friend working at Lyons led to application to LEO.  Did well in LEO aptitude test and offered job as engineering apprentice in Minerva Road.  As such worked on various engineering jobs before joining Tony Morgan’s commissioning team.  Provides fascinating account of way LEO operations worked to ensure to make working computers and working systems. Rose to become chief commissioning engineer on a number of LEO IIIs including Post Office and Czech machines.  Left LEO after merger created ICL, but continued his career in computing, but changing  from engineering to software management including a spell working for Hewlett Packard and moving to live in US.  

Left LEO:  Made redundant after formation of ICL

Repository: http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/62998/John-Page-Interview/

Copyright: Computer History Museum, CA.

Restrictions:  None known

Interviewee: John M.M. Pinkerton 1919-1997

Interviewer: Chris Evans

Date of Interview: 1975

Role in LEO: Chief Engineer

Joined LEO: 1948

Abstract: John Pinkerton joined Lyons as chief engineer at the very beginning of the LEO initiative and led the engineering side until the merger with English Electric. He held senior engineering appointments within the merged companies until his retirement. Much of the success of the LEO enterprise lay in his genius for bringing innovative ideas to practical fruition – one of the true heroes of the information age.

Repository: London Science Museum

Audio Recording: Tape 6 in Christopher Evans’s ‘Pioneers of Computing’

Transcript: Evans, Chris, (1983) Pioneers of Computing, IEEE Annals of the History of Computing,

Vol. 5, No 1, pp 64-72, January-March.

Copyright: Audio, London Science Museum, Transcript, IEEE

Please Note: This item is not in the LEO Computers collection and is included here for signposting purposes only.

Repository:http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/53242/John-Pinkerton-Interview/

Date : 1975

Interviewee: John M.M. Pinkerton (1919 – 1997)

Interviewer: John Pinkerton, self interview

Date of Interview: 23.08.1988

Role in LEO: Chief Engineer

Joined LEO: 1948

Abstract: Pinkerton begins by discussing his education and wartime work in radar technology in England. He then describes his movement into the computer industry after World War II and his work on the LEO I and LEO II computers. In this context he discusses the British computer firms J. Lyons and Company, LEO Computers, English Electric Co., and International Computers Ltd.

Repository: Charles Babbage Institute, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis

Transcript: 54 pages

Copyright: Charles Babbage Institute

To view this a transcript of this interview, click on the following link :

External Link : Click Here >>>

Please Note: This item is not in our collection and is included here for signposting purposes only.

Date : 23rd August 1988

Repository: http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/53241/John-Pinkerton-Self-Interview/

Interviewee: John M.M. Pinkerton (1919 – 1997)

Interviewer: John Pinkerton, self interview

Date of Interview: 23.08.1988

Role in LEO: Chief Engineer

Joined LEO: 1948

Abstract: Pinkerton begins by discussing his education and wartime work in radar technology in England. He then describes his movement into the computer industry after World War II and his work on the LEO I and LEO II computers. In this context he discusses the British computer firms J. Lyons and Company, LEO Computers, English Electric Co., and International Computers Ltd.

Repository: Charles Babbage Institute, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis

Transcript: 54 pages

Copyright: Charles Babbage Institute

To view this a transcript of this interview, click on the following link :

External Link : Click Here >>>

Please Note: This item is not in our collection and is included here for signposting purposes only.

Date : 23rd August 1988

Repository: http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/53241/John-Pinkerton-Self-Interview/

Interviewee: John Simmons

Interviewer: Chris Evans

Date of Interview: 1970s

Edited Transcript: Science Museum

Copyright: Science Museum

Reprinted as Interview between J.R.M. Simmons, Director and Chief Comptroller of J. Lyons & Co., and the Science Museum, London. Appendix B, in Caminer, D.T., Aris, J.B., Hermon, P.M., Land, F.F. (editors and contributors) LEO The Incredible Story of the World’s first Business Computer, McGraw Hill, New York, pages 360-374

Please Note: This item is not in the LEO Computers collection and is included here for signposting purposes only.

Repository:http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/53240/John-Simmons-Interview/